-Maj,Gen.rtd Ishola Williams
….Says Elite and Middle Class destroyed Nigeria
…state’s should conduct Governorship and local government elections
….. *After 25 Years of the fourth Republic ,nothing much has changed except Corruption in high places submits General Ishola Williams,former Secretary of Transparency International.*
As for him,the country should try a mixture of Presidential and Parliamentary system such that the President is appointed by the members of the National Assembly.
General Williams now PanAfstrag head,accuses Governors of stifling local government system by cornering their Funds thereby causing much hunger in the land and arresting National development.
He spoke on this and other issues with Newdawnngr crew of Editor, Tunde Abatan and Senior Correspondent, Omolara Akintoye.
Excerpts from the Zoom Interview:
*What would you say has changed in the past twenty five Years of Democracy?*
When you have that system of governance, democracy works for everybody.
second thing is to have followers that are responsible and understands and fulfils their obligations as citizens of the country by doing what is right which includes paying their taxes, performing their civic responsibilities among others.
Also, prevention of crime is citizens responsibility. If citizens refuse to commit crime for many reason ,that wul be good.
Therefore in any country where there are irresponsible citizens who do not fulfil their obligations,
they all leads to leaders without characters
and integrity.
In addition to that, no country can have a dictator if the people refuse, because at one time or the other, people will overthrow the dictator. So in any country where people’s will dominate that is the country where democracy is, but in Nigerian we are far from that.
*Why?*
This is because we have a group of people who are the elites followed by the middle class : these are the group where politicians come from, and they are the one that benefit from what is going on in Nigeria and so why should they change it.
People are complaining about 1999 Constitution because for 25 years now, there is no positive changes.
So what are they complaining about?
*Ques-
What you’re saying in essence is that people should campaign for the kind of democracy they want?*
Yes , it is the elites and the middle class who bears responsibilities for the situation we are facing in Nigeria, not the grassroots. Because there are people of various walks of life who are below the middle class.
Take for instance in the developed countries, there are people of various walks of life below the middle class they are as comfortable as the elites and the middle class because they have quality education and quality healthcare.
Any country that can provide this two has done all for most of the needs of the people.
*Ques : Would you say the reverse is the case in Nigeria?*
Yes , because after Chief Obafemi Awolowos government was the only government that has cared about education in Nigeria.
The situation hasn’t improved at all, we are neglecting the primary and secondary education and creating glorified Universities.
Therefore the foundation we are creating at primary and secondary schools level are very weak. We have weak foundations in primary and secondary schools especially in public schools even in many private schools, it’s even worst.
One of the reasons is that we are not paying the teachers well, we need to treat teachers and health workers as priority workers, be it public or private schools.
In addition, School Inspectors at Federal and State levels are not doing a good job, both are corrupt and their children don’t attend such schools.
Hence we are messing around wiith the foundation of our education in terms of looking after the teachers and the infrastructures that we have.
Lagos State is trying with the infrastructures in public schools and their teachers, but they need to do more.
Teachers in Public schools in Lagos are not doing enough especially Headmistress, everybody is feeding into the corrupt system.
But overall we need to do something about the foundation of our educational system.
*Que.: Today is Democracy day, what would you say have changed in the last one year of Tinubu’s Administration?*
First and foremost, our elections are becoming too costly, this is because we spend too much money on the security of elections.
Every security agencies want to participate in elections because there is money to be shared. If care is not taken we’ll not be able to hold elections without financial aid from developed countries even though we are still getting some support.
But overall, we need to do something about the foundation of our educational system.
Whereas in other federal systems in the world, states can look after their own election.
Let states take care of their own election both gubernatorial and local govt.
INEC should concentrate on elections for the federal house of Reps and Presidential elections.
This will reduce the cost of elections, cost of administration and everything else so that we don’t have to beg for money for election.
Secondly, because you delegated responsibilities to the state and local government, the turn out of elections at State and local levels will improve.
Thirdly, people will not come from United States to contest for elections and win, that will not happen.
Also, most often people are always giving excuses for things not going well in Nigeria, people are also castigating the INEC, nobody should blame INEC because it is appointed by govt of the day including State Electoral Commissioners who can be members of political parties.
And that shouldn’t happen because we don’t need the State Electoral Commissioners, if State govt. takes care of their own elections. And in most federal systems, it’s the State government. that helps INEC to conduct federal elections in their state to reduce cost and handle security issues as well, with the assistance of State and Local Police.
The state can also take care of technology issues as well without bothering INEC.
All these unnecessary responsibilities being taken up by INEC, in a federal system, should not happen at all.
Also, people at the local government levels don’t understands what democracy is all about, the local party system is terrible, we have no political parties in Nigeria at all.What we hace is a group of moneybags who have created parties just to conduct elections, no responsibilities but just to conduct elections in Nigeria.
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Looking at it overall, in a Presidential system, there is no opposition, Atiku and Obi are just trying to make noise, they are not constitutionally recognised.
In a Parliamentary system, there is Constitutional recognition, opposition leaders are also members of Parliament
and they all sit down in the Parliament together. Accountability, transparency is practical in that set of system.
So, there are too many things we need to change, if people want to do the right thing.
The elites and the middle class are the ones disturbing the peace of Nigeria, because they are the governors, members of the House of Reps, Senators, among others.
They know what to do and how it must be done and have to convince the President to do it.
And if the President takes a wrong decision, it’s the fault of people who do not want the interest of Nigeria at heart.
**Question: If elections are conducted at State and local levels there’s the fear that it will be difficult to remove the incumbent governor, what is your take on this ?*
*
ALSO READ:Governors have destroyed local government system-Isola Williams
That is not true, because if you don’t try something you won’t know how it works.
In the case of local govt., this is how it works : why passing local government money through the State govt in a three tier system of govt ? I disagree with Afenifere Group who are saying they do not support what General Muhammadu Buhari started and being continued by Tinubu, we have three tiers of govt and constitution and must be respected by the people.
If the governors are sincere, we need that third tier of govt. (Local govt.) which is closer to the people.
In developed countries all over the world, people care more about their local govt. than other levels because they are closer to them.
Therefore we need to allow States to conduct their own elections, there are cases whereby after elections are conducted at local level and results are announced, people will protest similar thing will also happen at governorship level
and if people don’t know you in that state, they won’t vote for you.
So INEC should hands off State and local government elections, it’s a Federal system of subsidiarity; what state and local government can do, federal govt shouldn’t do them.
I’m also advocating that each State should have a constitution to define their relationship with their local govt
At local govt level, there must be a Charter in which their relationship are defined with their communities. This is necessary because if the State is messing around local government, an take them to court and use the Charter as a Constitutional basis.
and they all sit down in the Parliament together. Accountability, transparency is practical in that set of system.
There are so many things we need to challenge if people want to do the right thing.
The elites and the middle class are the ones disturbing the peace of Nigeria, because they are the governors, members of the House of Reps, Senators, among others.
They know what to do and how it must be done and have to convince the President to do it.
Secondly, because you delegated responsibilities to the state and local government, the turn out of elections at State and local levels will improve.
Thirdly, people will not come from United States contest for elections and win, that will not happen.
Also, most often people are always giving excuses for things not going well in Nigeria, people are also castigating the INEC, nobody should blame INEC because it is appointed by govt of the day including State Electoral Commissioners who can be members of political parties. And that shouldn’t happen because we don’t need the State Electoral Commissioners if State govt. takes care of their own elections. And in most federal systems, it’s the State govt that helps INEC to conduct federal elections in their state to reduce cost and handle security issues as well, with the assistance of State and Local Police.
The state can also take care of technology issues as well without bothering INEC.
All these unnecessary responsibilities being taken up by INEC, in a federal system, should not happen at all.
Also, people at the local government levels don’t understands what democracy is all about, the local party system is terrible, we have no political parties in Nigeria at all it’s a group of moneybags who have created parties just to conduct elections, no responsibilities but just to conduct elections in Nigeria.
Looking at it overall, in a Presidential system, there is no opposition, Atiku and Obi are just trying to make noise, they are not constitutionally recognised. In a Parliamentary system, there is Constitutional recognition, opposition leaders are also members of Parliament
And if the President takes a wrong decision, it’s the fault of people who do not want the interest of Nigeria.
*There is this belief that*If elections are conducted at State and local levels there’s the fear that it will be difficult to remove the incumbent governor, what is your take on this ?**
That is not true, because if you don’t try something you won’t know how it works. In the case of local govt is this: why passing local government money through the State govt in a three tier system of govt.. I disagree with Afenifere Group who are saying they do not support what …….. started and being continued by Tinubu, we have three tiers of govt and constitution and must be respected be respected by the people. If the governors are sincere, we need that third tier of govt that is closer to the people. In developed countries all over the world people care more about their local govt. than other levels because they are closer to them.
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Therefore we need to allow States to conduct their own elections, there are cases whereby after elections are conducted at local level and results are announced, people will protest similar thing will also happen at governorship level
and if people don’t know you in that state they won’t vote for you.
So INEC should hands off State and local government elections, it’s a Federal system of subsidiarity; what state and local government can do, federal govt shouldn’t do them.
I’m also advocating that each State should have a constitution to define their relationship with their local govt At local govt level, there must be a Charter in which their relationship are defined with their communities. This is necessary because if the State is messing around local government an take them to court and use the Charter as a Constitutional basis.
In terms of economy, people are suffering and smiling according the late Songwriter Fela Anikulapo.
There are some basic issues that needed to be solved in this country namely : Education and Health. We have enough resources and money at Federal and State levels to provide Free education and Free primary health care for the populace. We’ve established so many medical and Nursing schools and we are producing enough health workers to be able to take care of free health care especially at the primary level same with primary schools.
It was implemented in the past and it worked and it can still work. Again, it shouldn’t be Federal government responsibilities but rather , that one of the State and local govt.. They can’t say they have no money, if someone can steal N40BN after being a CBN Gov. for three years and you transfer that to the civil service where an Accountant General had stolen N100BN and he was still
installed as a chief and you’re saying there’s no money for free education from Primary level to University level, we should stop deceiving ourselves.
This country has enough resources to do that.
What we’re missing is what Ghana has done.Ghana has done it and it’s working for them They’ve started training herbal medical doctors in Universities be it herbal medicine or western medicine, they have enough trained workers.
We can do the same thing in our universities.
Que.
**With the level of exposure we’ve had concerning the tenure of former CBN Gov. Godwin Emefiele, are you surprised with the alleged level of fraud and abuse of office?*
*
I’m not surprised at all. What happened during the tenure of former President Abacha, how could Abacha steal so much money and CBN couldn’t do anything about it.
They are still looking for the money all over the world.
President Bola Tinubu
During the time of Charles Soludo as CBN Gov he was able to rescue some banks with millions of dollars and those banks have not paid back and nobody is bothering the banks to pay back.
The same banks are filled with fraud, they help govt., politicians to keep money in their banks.
And we have a Financial Survey System, how could money get into the banks and was moved out of the bank without people’s knowledge.
When Sanusi was there too he was given the money like a drunken sailor, the same thing when he was an Emir.
So there is nothing new in what Emefiele has done, it’s a continuation of the history of Central Bank
Instead of looking at what Emefiele has done and the history of CBN and ensuring it doesn’t happen again, we are concentrating or punishing Emefiele.
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Ques.: *Don’t you think there should laws in place to checkmate the powers of CBN Gov.?*
There is nothing wrong with powers of CBN Gov, it’s the check that is missing. There is need to develop a system of check and balances. There is need for a recruiting system, independent of the government to recruit CBN Gov and recommended to the President and National Assembly for approval. The CBN Board of Govs. are also influenced by who is CBN Gov. Of course they’ve been receiving their own kickbacks as well that is why they’ve been quiet and are not resigning despite all the allegations of corruption embedded in the system
That is one bad thing in Nigeria very few people resign when they see something bad going on because of the benefits they get there. Again the elites and the middle class of Nigeria are responsible for where we are today
Quest. *There has been a renewed agitation for Restructuring how can it be effected by the govt. in power?*
To be Continued on Tuesday June 18
